posted 07-27-2000 08:38 AM         

Then I met my ex. He was a troubled 17 year old when we met and I was hell bent on helping him and got sucked into the downward spiral that ensued. He told me he smoked pot since he was 12 and had been smoking cigarettes since he was 11. He was an alcoholic then and is now(9 years later). He is chronically tired(must sleep 12 hours a day to function) and I've always attributed that to him smoking pot 5 or 6 times a day. Yet he insists that it's not addictive and he could quit at any time. But why would he do that?(he often says that with a smirk). We share cutody of our 3 year old and he sees nothing wrong with educating my baby about the joys of marijuana. Not to mention the joys of drinking(he brought my son home in a drunken stupor this past weekend) and cursing.

I used to think the pot made him what he is, but as I've grown up, I don't think that's the case. And I know plenty of people who have smoked it who don't anymore with no ill side effects. Yet I have what I would call almost a phobia about the stuff. Get it away from me!! Mostly because of my experience with this man. But I still wonder, why is it addictive for some and not for others? I have read articles that go both ways. And does it really kill brain cells? Or does it just make people turn into much chilled out zombies that sleep 12 hours a day and are grouchy all the time? And does that change if they quit or is it a permanent behavioral change after the fact.

posted 07-27-2000 12:21 PM            

However, some folks can become addicted to ANYTHING. They get into certain behavioral patterns and can't rid themselves of them. This is loosely what's called the "addictive personality". It doesn't really matter if the addiction is adventure novels, fresh orange juice, or blue toilet paper, they can become dependent on a substance or activity.

Your ex- does sounds like he has an addictive personality. And if he has smoked both pot and cigarettes since he was an early adolescent, no wonder he's tired! Smoking ANYTHING is bad for your lungs.

My boss (who is sort of a Big Name in substance abuse circles) favors decriminalization of marijuana. I guess I do too, as long as it doesn't become as big a scourge as tobacco, and as long as nobody goes back to pushing smoking the stuff as an asthma cure as they keep trying to do. I'm allergic to pot and I know it'd put me in the hospital if I was fool enough to smoke it. I'd hate to see another asthmatic with an undiscovered allergy smoke it and get seriously ill.

posted 07-27-2000 12:32 PM            

My best friend and I indulged quite a bit in high school. I went off and spun down that dark path which through a little luck and a lot of friends, I managed to survive. While my friend just stayed with pot and never gave it up. He was lazy to begin with and the pot just amplified that characteristic.

I have another friend that has been smoking it for 25+ years. Professional engineer who designed and built his own house and is rebuilding a Jag. He just smokes a bit before going to be like some people have a beer or tea.

Finally, my favorite story. In junior high I had a friend who was a straight C student. In 8th grade he started pot and jumped to straight A's. In high school he was dropping acid every day, taking honors classes, and blowing all the curves. He is now a professor of physics. I don't know if he still uses...probably not.

It's effects are all dependant on the person.

posted 07-27-2000 01:58 PM         

But like I say now(after learning my lesson) it's good to know who you're procreating with.

posted 07-27-2000 02:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kiwibird:
However, some folks can become addicted to ANYTHING. They get into certain behavioral patterns and can't rid themselves of them. This is loosely what's called the "addictive personality". It doesn't really matter if the addiction is adventure novels, fresh orange juice, or blue toilet paper, they can become dependent on a substance or activity.

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posted 07-27-2000 02:17 PM         

quote:

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I have always been told that pot kills brain cells.

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Well, the government messed me up when they wanted to borrow my blender for the government mixed and diced fruits sale. They borrowed the blender without my permission so I went up to them and, you know, curled my lip and pointed my finger at them and said "Hey, give me back my blender!" Unfortunately the Secret Government Organization thought my finger was a gun so they pumped me up with so many joints I gained about fifty pounds...

Hanh?

What was the question again?

Doc "purple hazing" Savage

posted 07-27-2000 03:25 PM            

quote:

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In 8th grade he started pot and jumped to straight A's.

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'Scuze me - I'm new here and don't want to be thought of as rude for just jumping in, but I do have something to add . . .

I had a similar experience in school. I'd smoked a few times when I was younger, but it wasn't until I was in college that I started smoking pot regularly. I was always a pretty good student, but a good buzz seemed to increase my concentration exponentially. Seemed like I had turned into a sponge - everything I studied settled in DEEP. In 3.5 yrs I graduated with honors. Nearly twenty years later I remember nearly all of it (and I'm still smokin'!). I suspect it's just an individual thing.

Smoke 'em if you got 'em!

posted 07-27-2000 05:05 PM            

quote:

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We share cutody of our 3 year old and he sees nothing wrong with educating my baby about the joys of marijuana. Not to mention the joys of drinking(he brought my son home in a drunken stupor this past weekend) and cursing.

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Let me try to get this straight...your son's father got your 3 year old drunk? Our his father, who was drunk, brought him home.

posted 07-27-2000 10:10 PM            

But I don't think there is any excuse for introducing any of these substances to a little kid, who is not yet able to make that kind of decisions.

posted 07-28-2000 07:12 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ToadWoman:
We share cutody of our 3 year old and he sees nothing wrong with educating my baby about the joys of marijuana. Not to mention the joys of drinking(he brought my son home in a drunken stupor this past weekend) and cursing.

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Toadwoman, can you clarify this one? I think I missed when I replied earlier. Does
he TALK to your son about pot, or give it to him to smoke, or just breathe the smoke at him? That is outright WRONG! Although I don't buy that it's terribly dangerous for adults (other than, of course the dangers inherent smoking anything at all and the allergy problems), but giving marijuana to a child is evil. Your baby's brain is still developing, and he's growing at a major rate. I wouldn't advocate children and babies smoking it any more than I would letting them get drunk or drop acid.

You ought to speak to a lawyer about this. I don't think your ex is a safe person to have access to your son, unless I totally misunderstood what you wrote.

posted 07-28-2000 07:40 AM            

quote:

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We share cutody of our 3 year old and he sees nothing wrong with educating my baby about the joys of marijuana. Not to mention the joys of drinking(he brought my son home in a drunken stupor this past weekend) and cursing.

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You're wondering if pot is addictive? I think you have some other concerns here. You have very good grounds for cutting off the ex's visitation rights with information like this. I'm with Kiwi, talk to a lawyer now. Why would you knowingly put your baby in the hands of an irresponsible pothead/drunk? Maybe daddy will clean up a bit if you take some action.

posted 07-28-2000 08:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by jjfireworks:
You're wondering if pot is addictive? I think you have some other concerns here. You have very good grounds for cutting off the ex's visitation rights with information like this. I'm with Kiwi, talk to a lawyer now. Why would you knowingly put your baby in the hands of an irresponsible pothead/drunk? Maybe daddy will clean up a bit if you take some action.

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It's probably a good thing I opted out of parenthood, because if someone did this to a child of mine, I'd cut off his nfbsk, never mind the visitation rights!

Kiwi(that'll larn him)bird

P.S. The studies I mentioned I've read are all on pot and ADULTS. I think all reports in medical journals on pot and children are negative.

posted 07-31-2000 07:07 AM         

Kiwibird, I have talked to my lawyer. It so happens that we went through a nasty custody battle last year and while I had him drug tested, he passed. I even pushed for a hair sample and he passed that. He tells me he quit for several months to get through it and I believe him. But as soon as it was all said and done, he's back to it. I figure it's his body, his life. He's not blowing pot smoke on my son or pushing joints in his face. But seeing and my son sees what goes on at the "parties" I don't see it as a good influence. I have wracked my brain and anguished over the situation for so long now... I have talked to my lawyer, repeatedly but because the dude passed the drug test the first go around, it is even difficult to get him tested now. I have to prove negligence which is SO hard to do. My only recourse is to keep a journal and wait. It is the most frustrating, agonizing ordeal I have ever faced. And seeing as my son will probably be the only child I will ever have, it is often a very painful realization to think he will end up like his dad.

I have often considered moving far away but laws in Missouri prohibit me from moving without the dad's permission(something he likes to remind me of quite often).

He took my son yesterday and everything was fine. They went bowling and ate out and had a good time. That's the hard thing about it. Sometimes he's a great dad, most times he's not. But proving any parent negligent is difficult. I feel like I'm trapped.

So I keep my journal. And I talk to my little boy and tell him what I believe and think. And I try to steer him away from that lifestyle. And I make excuses to his dad about spending time with him. On one hand, I really want him to know his dad and on the other hand, I want to protect him. It's this really weird balancing act that is so nerve wracking. And nobody wins.

posted 07-31-2000 07:48 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by tdn:

Does that include addiction to message boards?

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You're not addicted -- you're just hanging around until we can get you married off.

Barbara "shadchan" Mikkelson

posted 07-31-2000 09:02 AM            

His body, his life? He is driving his son home DRUNK!

posted 07-31-2000 09:51 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ToadWoman:
[B]I figure it's his body, his life. /B]

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As VP points out, your ex's right to make his own decisions on substance abuse doesn't mean he has a right to endanger your son's life. I hope that you're keeping a SEPARATE journal, not just for you, with all the dates on which he's driven drunk, used substances to your knowledge in front of your son, etc. etc. And if you have witnesses, get their names, phone numbers, etc.

I live in Missouri too, ToadWoman, and I know that Social Services is hell on people who drive drunk with kids in the car. If you have witnesses to any of this behavior, you'll get sympathy from them and from a judge if you refuse to let him take your son anywhere. He can take you to court, sure, but if your witnesses will testify, he will be SOL.

posted 07-31-2000 12:15 PM         

When I made the statement, his body his life, I don't think I made it clear that I think it's fine what he does on his own time, but when he has our son, it's different. That's even written out in our court agreement. No drinking when he has our son. I have even made stipulations that he not hang out with certain friends when he has Andrew because I know they drink and get crazy. Still, he sneaks around and I can't control everything he does. I absolutely do not let my son spend the night with him, even though the court ordered weekend visits to start in February. If his dad can't afford a bed, my son can't sleep there. I am also very aware that he never paid his lawyer(over $4,000) for the court costs last year. So he isn't in a position to fight me at all right now. In court I pushed for him to have supervised visits only but was not able to get that when he passed the drug test. He has joint/legal custody.

I think it is also difficult for people to understand the hell it is to go through this unless they have gone through it themselves. Missouri courts certainly didn't care that this man has a history of alcoholism when they gave him custody rights.

I don't want to come across as some nambly pambly do-nothing about it type person when I've fought tooth and nail to keep this guy away from my son. I didn't let him see my boy for a full year before he sued me for custody. And it has been the hardest thing in the world for me, every time he takes him away. And my lawyer is sick to death of me calling and bugging him all the time.

posted 07-31-2000 06:19 PM            

Okay, if it has withdrawal syptoms, it's addictive... I agree with "you can become addicted to anything".
I'm addicted to ER. Take it away, it results in boredom and depression.
Maybe you should do a random testing...

posted 07-31-2000 08:13 PM            

good luck.

posted 08-01-2000 10:57 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ToadWoman:
The advice my lawyer gave me, was to call the police right after he drops my son off if that happens again(that was the first time). I don't often have a witness since I'm single and live alone with my son.
...
I absolutely do not let my son spend the night with him, even though the court ordered weekend visits to start in February. If his dad can't afford a bed, my son can't sleep there. I am also very aware that he never paid his lawyer(over $4,000) for the court costs last year. So he isn't in a position to fight me at all right now. In court I pushed for him to have supervised visits only but was not able to get that when he passed the drug test. He has joint/legal custody.

Sorry if I'm a little upset and am ranting. I just don't want to be portrayed as someone who stands by and does nothing when that is not the case.

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I totally agree with Megaira. Get a new "Mouthpiece". I also have a suggestion. Hire a new lawyer that uses a reputable Private Invesitgator. That should get you all the ammo you need to have his custody revoked. PI's also make GREAT witnesses. You can also petition the Guardian Ad Litem (if you have a program like that in MO) They are volunteers-usually in the legal field, sometimes not-who look out for the welfare of the CHILD. They check in on visitation situitations, etc. But with the laws being as they are, yo may just need to go for total revocation of parental rights. When your son is old enough he can make up his own mind. Unitl then, it's your 'pleasure' to do that for him.

I wish you all the luck. The drinking & cavorting is NOTHING a child that age should see. I bet they cuss around him, too. Think about when he falls & gets a bump & says "S**T, that F**king thing hurts" It will happen. Bank on it.

K "eepin an I out for ya "
Sting "'em hard " Ray "of sunshine"

posted 08-01-2000 12:23 PM         

K "eepin an I out for ya "
Sting "'em hard " Ray "of sunshine"

My son is already using those words. You wouldn't believe the language they use. It's pathetic. But then again, you probably can imagine the language they use. One thing I will say though, soap has a very powerful affect on a three year old. I have talked to my ex hundreds of times about the language and the lamest thing he can say is that he actually doesn't even realize what he's saying. I have a good lawyer, actually a very good lawyer who helped me out immensely. And he never complains when I call and ask questions. Maybe I just feel like I'm imposing because he doesn't charge me to talk on the phone. I will call him again. Actually, this post really brought out in my mind things I have been trying to push aside, trying to give my ex the opportunity to be a parent. He screws up again and again. I'm in a tug of war environment trying to teach my son what is right and wrong. And here I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt to a guy who seems to have no moral obligation to his son. As my mother says, he's just a sperm donor.

I haven't talked to my lawyer in several months. He told me to keep a record of daily activities and report back to him if things don't stop. He also told me that if I suspect drugs or alcohol, I am under no obligation to let my son go with his dad. It's never that way when they leave, but coming back is a different story.

Child custody is a very touchy issue. The courts want the parents to work together. They want the child to have both parents raising the child. Therefore they make it very difficult to take parental rights away. And you have to realize, I also have this 3 year old little boy who loves his daddy and doesn't understand why he can't see him. And when he cries at night, begging to see him or talk to him, what is a mother to do? And I don't want that little boy to resent me when he gets older because I wouldn't let him see his daddy, even though the guy is a creep.

There are just so many things to consider. And there never seems to be an easy answer. Thanks so much to everybody who gave their advice. I really appreciate it.

posted 08-01-2000 03:09 PM            

quote:

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He also told me that if I suspect drugs or alcohol, I am under no obligation to let my son go with his dad. It's never that way when they leave, but coming back is a different story.

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If he's come back drunk once with your son, you now have reason to suspect he'll do it again.

quote:

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And you have to realize, I also have this 3 year old little boy who loves his daddy and doesn't understand why he can't see him. And when he cries at night, begging to see him or talk to him, what is a mother to do? And I don't want that little boy to resent me when he gets older because I wouldn't let him see his daddy, even though the guy is a creep.

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This is going to sound awful, but I have to say it. Imagine that you decide to wait & hope for the best because you can't tear your son away from the father he loves... we obviously know that "dad" is not going to have a change of heart about his lifestyle anytime in the near future because he *likes* his lifestyle... so he continues to endanger and negatively influence your son... and finally things come to a head (I think they already did when he decided to get drunk and drive your son home) and now your kid is 5 or 6 years old and even more firmly attached to his dad, as well as doesn't understand that these things he is being taught that seem so cool are dangerous for him (and even if you're trying to teach him that they are not, he's getting conflicting signals and has no stability anyway) and therefore resents you MORE for doing it then? It'll just be torture for you in the long run. And... you have no idea that putting your foot down in this situation and making no bones about what is and isn't acceptable (aka, "if you don't clean it up, you don't see your son") won't be what turns him around anyway. If it doesn't, well it's HIS loss and your son is the better for it. I know I might be speaking of it lightly like his father is a toy he can't have, but your son WILL get over it because he has you... and if you aren't really aggressive about protecting him now, how stable of a foundation does that give him in the future? This is not about you and how hard it is for you, this is about your son...and you know this. As terrible as it will feel and as many nights you're going to spend fighting the urge to give in, you're going to have to look past what you and your son feel now and think about this in a logical, unemotional manner - his father is damaging him psychologically and it might not be that long before something physically happens to him as well. Your son is going to rebel against you and resent you as a teenager anyway - are you going to give in to what he wants then too?

quote:

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There are just so many things to consider.

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No, occams razor applies here -the simplest answer is the right answer. There is only ONE thing to consider "how can I *protect* my son." Then go about doing *EVERY* thing in your power to do so, even if it means dishing out money when you're already broke to get a PI and get some evidence to back yourself up. The courts suck and no one is denying that this is hard, but from what I'm reading here (and my heartfelt apologies if I am wrong) you are treading dangerously on the middle line... you started this thread not asking for help with the situation, but asking if pot really damages brain cells - that's trying to justify something you KNOW that's happening that is wrong. You would not have mentioned that bit about your son if you didn't know this and want something to help push you in the right direction because you know you're having problems making that move on your own. It's understandable that you are having a hard time doing this, I'm not trying to bag on you, but I don't want to poof a pillow and pretend I didn't see it or that everything's "ok" just because you replied and tried to downplay it. It would be one thing if you and your son's father just had a total personality clash and didn't like each other but he was a good father, it's another thing all together when you're making allowances for a jackass who doesn't deserve them. By "allowances" I mean you're letting him see a child who he claims to love, but obviously does not love enough to clean himself up and get straightened out. You are "rewarding" him for behaving like an utter derelict and I suspect you feel sorry for him. Well, your personal feelings can NOT enter this equation.

quote:

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And there never seems to be an easy answer.

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Of course not, and all the sympathy in the world for the fight you're going to have to go through.

I know this sounds harsh and cold, but I honestly think that your perspective is a bit tweaked in this situation -there is a bond between you and the dad and sympathy there for him that has to exit this scenerio because it is undermining your fight. You cannot present a strong case and win if you're saying "there's hope for him yet" - you unfortunately need to get a fatalistic & cynical attitude about that man in order to help your son. If one day he cleans up and shows a good track record, that cynacism will help you not further damage your son by letting him contact his dad and get burnt if the man is not sincere about his rehabilitation.

Ok, I'm going to stop now because I'm getting too upset. Again, I'm not trying to bag on you, I think that in your situation you're in so deep you just can't get straight perspective.

Again, if I am wrong, I'm more than willing to eat my shoes and some dirt while I'm at it.

Meg

posted 08-01-2000 04:40 PM            

Exposing a child to pot and alcohol and the behaviors that go with them from those who abuse those substances is just plain WRONG. That's the issue. This is about people and how they misbehave, and how kids get exposed to bad habit patterns that can ruin their entire lives.